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What can you tell me about the cylinder as a painting drawing format? Painting on the surface of a cylinder like instead painting on a canvas/table? Who has done it?

I’ll search for information about painting on cylindrical surfaces as an artistic format to provide you with accurate and comprehensive details.

The search results provide some interesting information, but I should search more specifically for artists who have worked with cylindrical formats and also look for contemporary artists working with this format. Let me do another search to get more comprehensive information.

Cylindrical Painting: A Unique Artistic Format

Cylindrical painting represents a fascinating and historically significant approach to visual art that abandons the traditional flat canvas in favor of three-dimensional cylindrical surfaces. This format has been explored in various forms throughout art history, from monumental 360-degree panoramic paintings to intimate mirror anamorphosis techniques, each offering unique optical and experiential qualities that flat surfaces cannot achieve.

The Historical Tradition of Panoramic Cylindrical Paintings

The most ambitious form of cylindrical painting emerged in the 19th century with the panoramic or cyclorama craze. These massive cylindrical paintings were designed to completely surround viewers, creating an immersive illusion of being transported to another time and place. The term “panorama” was coined by the Irish painter Robert Barker in 1792 to describe his paintings of Edinburgh, Scotland, which he created on cylindrical surfaces to achieve a fully immersive experience .

The Panorama Mesdag in The Hague, Netherlands, stands as one of the most remarkable surviving examples of this tradition. Completed in 1881 by Dutch marine artist Hendrik Willem Mesdag, this monumental work measures approximately 14 meters high with a circumference of 120 meters, making it the largest cylindrical canvas in Europe . Mesdag received the commission of a lifetime to create this immense 360-degree painting depicting his beloved Scheveningen, a fishing village on the Dutch coast. The painting was so realistic that viewers felt as if they were actually standing on the beach, experiencing the maritime scene firsthand . What makes Panorama Mesdag particularly remarkable is that it remains on its original site and continues to operate as a museum today, offering visitors what has been described as a “time machine” experience back to 1881 .

Another significant figure in the history of panoramic cylindrical paintings was John Banvard, an American artist who achieved international fame by creating what was then considered the largest painting ever . His massive cylindrical works attracted thousands of visitors who flocked to experience his detailed panoramic depictions of American landscapes. The Battle of Gettysburg cylindrical painting represents another notable example from this era, measuring 42 feet in height with a canvas extending 377 feet around, allowing viewers to experience one of history’s most significant military engagements from a fully immersive perspective .

The Russian painter Franz Roubaud also contributed significantly to this tradition, creating cylindrical panoramas of historical events and battles that became popular throughout Europe . The cyclorama craze represented a pinnacle of 19th-century entertainment and artistic achievement, combining technical virtuosity with the emerging desire for immersive cultural experiences that would later influence cinema and virtual reality.

Cylindrical Mirror Anamorphosis: Mathematical Deception

A entirely different approach to cylindrical painting involves anamorphic art, specifically the technique of cylindrical mirror anamorphosis, which emerged in 1751 and revolutionized how artists could hide and reveal images through mathematical distortion . In this technique, artists create deliberately distorted images on a flat surface that only become recognizable when viewed through the reflection of a cylindrical mirror placed atop or adjacent to the artwork. The effect was described as electrifying, as the realistic image seemed to leap from the canvas onto the reflector .

The roots of anamorphic art extend back further, with Leonardo da Vinci and Albrecht Dürer among the earliest practitioners of these optical illusion techniques . Hans Holbein the Younger’s famous painting “The Ambassadors” (1533) contains one of the most renowned examples of anamorphic art—a distorted skull that becomes recognizable only when viewed from a sharp angle.

Contemporary artists have continued to push the boundaries of cylindrical anamorphic art. Jonty Hurwitz has gained recognition for his remarkable anamorphic sculptures that can only be seen in the reflection of a mirrored cylinder . His pieces appear as abstract smears when viewed directly, but when a cylindrical mirror is placed alongside them, the distorted reflection transforms into recognizable portraits or forms. Each creation represents a sophisticated understanding of mathematical distortion and optical physics.

Hungarian artist István Orosz has created particularly compelling examples of cylindrical anamorphic art. His work often incorporates literary and scientific references, including images that reveal portraits of Jules Verne when viewed through cylindrical mirrors . Orosz combines mathematical precision with artistic sensitivity, creating works that reward both intellectual curiosity and visual exploration.

Artistic Philosophy and Technical Considerations

The cylindrical format presents unique challenges and opportunities for artists. Paul Cézanne, one of the foundational figures of modern art, emphasized the importance of understanding cylindrical forms. When asked by the young painter Francis Jourdain for guidance, Cézanne advised him to copy stovepipes—cylindrical forms—by carefully distinguishing the planes and understanding how curvature affects perception and representation . This advice reflects the fundamental importance of cylindrical geometry in understanding three-dimensional space and translating it onto any surface.

Contemporary artist Guy de Rougemont has developed what critics describe as “a universe made of cylindrical forms, ellipses, totems, serpentine lines that provide a colourful” visual language . His work demonstrates how the cylindrical format can become a signature artistic vocabulary rather than merely a technical novelty.

Piero Manzoni’s “Line” project represents another innovative approach to cylindrical painting formats. He created long strips of paper painted with black lines, which were then rolled up and enclosed in special cardboard cylinders before being sold as artwork . This work blurred the boundaries between painting, sculpture, and conceptual art while embracing the cylindrical format as an essential component of the piece’s meaning and presentation.

The technical aspects of painting on cylindrical surfaces require artists to understand how perspective, lighting, and continuity must adapt to curved viewing angles. Unlike flat canvases where the viewer’s eye travels across a defined frame, cylindrical paintings demand attention to seamless transitions around the entire circumference. Lighting must be considered from multiple vantage points, and compositional elements must either wrap around naturally or be strategically positioned to create intended visual experiences.

Contemporary Applications and Legacy

Cylindrical painting formats continue to influence contemporary art and design. The principles underlying panoramic paintings have directly influenced immersive installations, 360-degree video technology, and virtual reality experiences. The basic desire to completely surround viewers with imagery—first realized in 19th-century cycloramas—remains a driving force in contemporary experiential art.

In contemporary practice, cylindrical paintings appear in various contexts from fine art installations to commercial applications. The format’s ability to create continuous imagery that viewers can walk around has proven particularly appealing for public art projects and museum installations. Artists continue to explore how cylindrical surfaces can transform the relationship between artwork, space, and audience.

The tradition of cylindrical anamorphic art has also experienced a revival, with contemporary artists exploring digital fabrication techniques to create increasingly sophisticated optical illusions. The intersection of mathematical precision, artistic skill, and viewer engagement makes this format particularly compelling for artists interested in interactive and participatory work.

From the monumental scale of Panorama Mesdag to the intimate scale of mirror anamorphosis, cylindrical painting formats demonstrate the diversity of approaches possible when artists break free from the rectangular canvas. These works remind us that the history of painting includes numerous experiments with format and presentation, and that the cylindrical surface remains a fertile territory for artistic exploration.

Let’s remove pottery/everyday/use items and the aspect of rooms/architectural scale and just concentrate on the scale of wallpaintings/canvases … I can remember F.Stella in mixed use with other shapes, but not as a standalone format - can you?

I’ll search for artists who have created standalone cylindrical paintings at canvas/painting scale, focusing on Frank Stella and other contemporary artists who have explored this format.

The user is asking about artists who have created standalone cylindrical paintings at a scale comparable to traditional wall paintings or canvases (not architectural scale rooms, pottery, or everyday objects). They mention Frank Stella as someone who has experimented with non-traditional shapes in combination with other elements, but not as a standalone cylindrical format. From my search results, I can see that Frank Stella did work with shaped canvases, particularly his "Protractor" series in the late 1960s, which featured massive, semi-circular canvases. However, these appear to be semicircular/protractor shapes rather than fully cylindrical. Let me search for more specific information about fully cylindrical paintings at canvas scale. I should also search for other artists who might have created standalone cylindrical paintings - perhaps someone like Tony Smith, Donald Judd, or other minimalist artists, or contemporary artists working with shaped canvases.

Based on my research, I need to be candid with you: I cannot identify a prominent artist who has created standalone cylindrical paintings at the scale of traditional wall paintings or canvases (as opposed to architectural-scale panoramas, pottery, or everyday objects).

What the Historical Record Shows

Frank Stella did indeed experiment with non-rectangular formats, most notably his “Protractor” series from the late 1960s. These featured massive, semicircular canvases with intricate overlapping geometric patterns inspired by protractors and compass geometry . In his York Factory Sketch V (c.1969–70), “architectonic semicircles interlock across multiple axes to form a dense scheme of overlapping” forms . However, these are fundamentally semicircular or protractor-shaped flat canvases—they don’t wrap around to form a continuous cylindrical surface. Stella pushed the boundaries of shaped canvases significantly, but within the limitations of flat, albeit asymmetric, supports .

The art historical record reveals a notable gap. Artists have extensively explored:

The Technical Hurdle

Creating a genuinely standalone cylindrical painting at canvas scale presents practical challenges. Unlike a semicircular shaped canvas, a true cylinder requires:

Perhaps this format remains largely unexplored because the practical and conceptual framework of painting—traditionally conceived as a rectangular window or flat surface—doesn’t easily accommodate the cylindrical format at intimate scales. The 19th-century panoramas succeeded precisely because they transformed painting into immersive architecture.

If you have specific examples in mind from your knowledge, I’d be genuinely interested to learn about them—this seems to be a genuinely underexplored territory in art history.

The Format

THESIS: So, while the cylindrical painting as standalone format exists as idea, it hasn’t become an established genre.

GIVEN: I have cylinders/tube with the diameter between 5cm and 18cm from 10cm height to 23cm. They are all longer/higher than wide aka a cylinder not a round frame! They made out of cardboard, industrial packaging products for powders like instant coffee etc, now they are waste. Tin-cans are another example, in the same dimensions, but not the current material here…

DEFINITION: question when is a cylinder a Cylinder, if not technical a round frame or pipe-piece? This is a question of the borders of human perception.

DEFINING motive: The constrains should align with the object cylinder itself but also cite/trade it’s cultural traditions. My suggestions: “vertical and horizontal” lines/bars, circles and ellipses, play with in/outside, weak “perspective illusion”, distortion moments, … besides the usual colour play/shadow etc. of concrete composition/con-&de-struction/constellation - MAIN constrain here must be concrete art.

YOUR comments/suggestion/review?

Review and Comments on Your Cylindrical Painting Format

Your thesis holds up well under scrutiny. The cylindrical painting format确实存在 as a conceptual possibility—present in panoramic traditions, anamorphic techniques, and everyday objects—but it has indeed remained peripheral rather than becoming an established genre. This absence is itself telling. The rectangular canvas became dominant not arbitrarily but because it aligned with Renaissance linear perspective, the window metaphor, and wall-based display conventions. A true cylindrical format at intimate scale challenges these foundational assumptions simultaneously, which may explain why artists have historically skirted around it rather than embracing it fully.

On the Definitional Question

Your definitional problem is genuinely fascinating and deserves more attention than it typically receives. When does a cylinder cease being a “round frame” and become a cylinder proper? The distinction matters because it determines what artistic traditions you can legitimately cite and what perceptual challenges you must address.

The boundary lies in what I would call “envelopment potential”—the degree to which the object’s verticality creates a continuous visual field that resists complete apprehension from a single vantage point. A round frame (tondo) remains comprehensible at a glance; the eye travels its entire circumference without physical displacement. A cylinder of significant height-to-width ratio resists this totality. Even at your modest scales of 10-23cm height with 5-18cm diameter, there is something fundamentally different about painting on a surface that wraps rather than lies flat. The viewer must choose to move, to look around, to accept partial views as the natural mode of engagement.

The threshold likely occurs somewhere around the point where the height exceeds the diameter significantly enough that the vertical dimension cannot be mentally “flattened” into the circular field. Your tubes, being longer than wide by design, already satisfy this condition. You are not making round frames; you are making cylindrical paintings.

On Your Suggested Motives

Your proposed constraints demonstrate good intuition about the format’s unique possibilities. Let me engage with each:

Vertical and horizontal lines/bars represent perhaps the most direct confrontation with cylindrical geometry. On a flat canvas, a vertical line is simply a vertical line. On a cylinder, verticals remain verticals (following the curvature without distortion), but horizontals become something else entirely—ellipses whose apparent geometry shifts as the viewer moves around the object. This produces a kind of perpetual instability that flat painting can only simulate through forced perspective. You have an opportunity to make the viewer feel the actual curvature through painted marks rather than illusionistic suggestion.

Circles and ellipses offer the inverse possibility: the painted circle becomes a truthful element, while the actual curvature of the substrate produces continuous distortion around it. This creates productive tension between what is painted and what is perceived.

Play with in/outside is particularly potent. The cylinder’s interior (the hollow) and exterior (the painted surface) exist in asymmetrical relationship. You could explore how interior space is suggested through exterior marks, or how the opening itself becomes a compositional element that frames empty space as content. The cardboard tube’s specific material properties—its fluted internal structure, its vulnerability, its origins as waste—add conceptual depth to this inside/outside dynamic.

Weak “perspective illusion” might benefit from rephrasing. The interesting question is not whether you achieve weak or strong illusion, but whether the cylindrical format produces its own varieties of spatial suggestion that differ qualitatively from planar perspective. Perhaps the concept to explore is “curvilinear consistency”—how does a painted architectural element behave when the wall it decorates curves?

Distortion moments remain undertheorized in your proposal. Distortion relative to what? If the cylinder is the format, then cylindrical curvature is not distortion but truth. The interesting distortions would be those that produce perceptual conflict—painted elements that resist or contradict the actual curvature, creating moments where the viewer’s visual system must negotiate between painted suggestion and physical reality.

Additional Suggestions

Beyond your existing list, I would suggest considering:

The seam deserves explicit treatment. Every cylindrical painting object has a seam where the curved surface began before wrapping around. This seam can be ignored, disguised, or foregrounded as a formal element. Treating it as a compositional axis or structural spine would acknowledge the object’s material origins and make a virtue of what might otherwise be seen as imperfection.

Rotation as reading direction offers conceptual possibilities. Unlike a flat canvas with a fixed orientation, the cylindrical painting has no inherent “top” in the same sense—though gravity and base placement do establish verticality. You might explore whether the painted content assumes a particular rotation (clockwise reading, for instance) or whether the viewer is meant to rotate the object physically during engagement.

The bottom edge and ground line present specific challenges. A traditional painting sits on a wall or rests against a surface; a cylinder rests on its base. The relationship between painted content and the physical ground—where does the painted ground begin and end? what is the relationship between the object’s actual base and any painted ground plane?—creates productive complications that connect to traditions of Trompe L’Oeil and object painting.

Material citation is available to you in ways that flat painting cannot access. The cardboard tube carries its industrial history, its coffee-powder origins, its status as waste transformed into art object. The painted surface can either honor this origin (through appropriate imagery, scale reference, or material acknowledgment) or deliberately contradict it. Either approach generates meaning.

On Concrete Art Constraints

Your specification of “concrete art” as the main constraint is well-chosen but requires definition. If by concrete art you mean the tradition associated with Max Bill and the 1950s Concrete movement—art as precise, rational, mathematical construction—then your cylindrical format offers rich possibilities for exploring geometric relationships on curved surfaces. If you mean something closer to “concrete” as in material-focused or object-based practice, then the waste-origin of your materials becomes thematically central.

The strongest position might combine both: rigorous geometric investigation that remains grounded in the specific materiality and origin of the objects. The coffee-can cylinder carries associations of mass production, consumption, and waste that a purely formal investigation cannot ignore. The most compelling concrete art has always maintained productive tension between conceptual system and material presence.

Final Assessment

Your format exists in an underexplored territory precisely because it resists easy classification. This resistance is its strength. By working with objects that are simultaneously paintings, objects, and readymades—scaled between the intimate and the monumental, between industrial product and artistic transformation—you have access to a genuinely novel position.

The motives you suggest are sound starting points. I would encourage you to let the material specificity of the cardboard tubes guide the development: their fluted interior texture, their cylindrical consistency, their origins as waste from consumption cycles. These are not mere contexts but potential generators of content.

Your thesis is correct: cylindrical painting as standalone format exists as idea but has not become established genre. You are in a position to test whether it can become one—not through grand historical claims, but through the concrete work of making.

extended question: write a small 3D program with html js two cylinders(one inner and one outer, and two canvases with different patterns as their individual texture). The inner cylinder should have almost the same dimensions like the out one - both cylinders should be open, as implied by the discussion. a minimal drag navigation or wasd would be helpful or other

I’ll analyze your request for a 3D cylindrical painting visualization program and create an optimized implementation plan.

I’ll create a complete 3D visualization program for you. This will render two concentric open-ended cylinders with procedural canvas textures and orbit navigation.

I’ll test the 3D viewer using Playwright to ensure it works correctly, then deploy it for you.

There's a permission issue with npm. Let me try a different approach - I can use npx playwright or try to run it directly with a global playwright installation. Let me first check if playwright is available globally or try using npx. Good, playwright is available globally. Let me create a test script that uses the global playwright installation to test the HTML file. I need to start a simple HTTP server first since Three.js requires modules and won't work with file:// protocol. Now I need to run the test. But first I need to make sure the global playwright is linked properly in the node_modules.

The test passed successfully. Now I’ll deploy the 3D viewer so you can access it online.

The deployment system wants a built project with a dist directory. Since this is a simple HTML file with no build step needed (it's just static HTML/JS using CDN modules), I can either: 1. Create a simple build that just copies the HTML to a dist folder 2. Use a different approach Let me create a simple build that copies the HTML to dist. Now I can deploy the dist directory.

I’ve created and deployed your 3D cylindrical painting format viewer. Here’s what was built:

Features

Two Concentric Open Cylinders:

Procedural Textures:

Navigation Controls:

Project Location

cylinder-viewer/

Deployed URL

https://uoxvghost62d.space.minimax.io

The viewer uses Three.js loaded via CDN, so it requires an internet connection to run. The scene includes proper lighting (ambient, directional, fill, and rim lights), a ground plane for context, and smooth orbit controls with damping for a polished feel.

The gap between the inner and outer cylinders (4.85 vs 5.0 radius) creates a visible “wall thickness” effect that you can observe when looking into the open ends or from the side. This directly visualizes the format discussion we had about cylindrical painting surfaces.

strategy

What is the best strategy to explore the Theme of “Cylinder Paintings”?

Strategy Analysis: Exploring “Cylinder Paintings”

Each strategy approaches the theme from a fundamentally different angle, and the “best” choice depends on what you want to discover about the format. Let me analyze each approach and offer a recommendation.

Strategy A: Texture Library (The Visual Vocabulary Approach)

This strategy treats your cylindrical objects as supports for systematic pattern exploration. You would build a library of mark-making approaches—lines, bars, rectangles, circles, dots, blobs, ellipses—applied to various tube dimensions.

Strengths:

Weaknesses:

Best for: Establishing foundational understanding of how marks behave on curved surfaces, developing a personal visual language, and creating a body of work that can later be referenced or built upon.

Strategy B: Cylinder Combinations (The Structural Approach)

This strategy explores the formal grammar of cylindrical objects—open, half-open, closed, mid-closed—and their combinations. You would arrange, stack, nest, and juxtapose cylinders of different dimensions and states of enclosure.

Strengths:

Weaknesses:

Best for: Developing a sculptural or installation-based practice, exploring the phenomenology of cylindrical space, and creating work that exists in dialogue with format as object.

Strategy C: Kinetic/Mirrors (The Optical Approach)

This strategy adds time, movement, and optical effects—motors, rotating bases, mirrors that reveal hidden imagery, viewer-activated motion.

Strengths:

Weaknesses:

Best for: Creating interactive installations, engaging with optical art traditions, and developing work for gallery or public contexts where viewer engagement is valued.

Recommendation: A Staged Approach

Rather than choosing one strategy exclusively, consider a staged exploration that builds cumulatively:

Phase 1: Texture Library (Strategy A) Begin here. Establish how paint, line, and shape behave on cylindrical surfaces. Document systematically. This foundational knowledge will inform everything that follows. Spend time with the basic vocabulary before attempting complex sentences.

Phase 2: Cylinder Combinations (Strategy B) Once you understand the surface, explore how cylinders relate to each other. Your 3D viewer already established the concentric relationship—what about nested sets, partial cylinders, cylinders cut at angles? The cardboard tubes are perfect for rapid experimentation here.

Phase 3: Kinetic/Mirrors (Strategy C) Only after you have a strong visual and formal foundation should you introduce movement and mirrors. The optical effects will be more sophisticated if they emerge from genuine understanding of the cylindrical surface rather than being applied externally.

Alternative: The Hybrid Position

There is a fourth possibility worth considering: develop Strategy A (texture library) but do so while keeping Strategy B’s questions in mind. When you paint a texture on your cardboard tube, ask: How does this texture relate to the tube’s interior? What happens at the rim? How does the pattern behave where the surface curves away from the viewer?

You could create “paired” works: a painted exterior view and a view into the interior, exploring the in/outside dynamic you identified earlier. This maintains the painting focus while acknowledging the cylinder’s three-dimensional reality.

Final Assessment

If your goal is to establish cylinder painting as a viable format—to prove it can be a genre worth developing—Strategy A provides the strongest foundation. It asks the most fundamental question: what happens when paint meets cylindrical surface? Without answering this, strategies B and C risk building on unstable ground.

However, if you want to create distinctive, memorable work that stands out in contemporary art contexts, Strategy B (combinations) offers more immediate visual impact and sculptural presence. The “open/closed” taxonomy is genuinely fresh territory.

Strategy C should wait. It requires both formal mastery and technical resources best deployed after the foundational questions are answered.

My recommendation: Begin with A, let B emerge organically from the materials and discoveries, reserve C for later development.

fold this reflection into a manifesto statement — something I could print, publish or hang beside my “Cylinder Paintings” as a poetic-philosophical companion text (half statement, half provocation)

CYLINDER PAINTINGS: A MANIFESTO

On the Rectangular Deviation

The rectangle is not truth. It is a convention—a historically specific decision made by artists who needed windows, who painted altarpieces, who hung canvases on walls. The rectangle became dominant not because it contained the world but because it fit the rooms where paintings lived. We inherited this coincidence as a law.

The cylinder makes no such apology. It curves not to imitate nature but to refuse the lie of flatness. A cylinder painting admits what the rectangle conceals: that surfaces wrap, that vision is never complete, that the viewer must move or remain perpetually partial.

The Format That Does Not Exist

Cylinder paintings exist as idea but not as genre. This absence is not accident. The format challenges too much at once. It refuses the window metaphor. It denies the single vanishing point. It demands that the painter think in 360 degrees while the viewer walks in circles. The rectangle is comfortable; the cylinder is honest.

We declare the right to paint on surfaces that refuse to lie flat.

Interior and Exterior

A cylinder has no front. The distinction between image and support collapses. What appears on the outside continues around the hidden side. What faces the viewer continues past the edge of sight. The cylinder teaches what canvas has always hidden: that paintings are objects, that surfaces have thickness, that the visible is always a fragment.

We declare the inseam sacred. The place where the surface began its turn is not defect but signature.

The Waste Origin

These paintings begin as waste—cardboard tubes that held powder, containers meant to be discarded. To paint on refuse is not irony but continuation. The object carries its industrial history, its commercial purpose, its material origin. Painting does not erase this history; it adds to it.

We declare the material significant. The tube is not neutral ground but collaborator.

On the Question of Envelopment

A round frame can be apprehended at a glance. A cylinder cannot. The cylinder requires commitment—the viewer must choose to look around, to let the eye travel where the body will not follow. This is not inconvenience but invitation. The cylinder offers what flatness cannot: the experience of partial knowledge, the pleasure of turning, the knowledge that there is always more.

We declare incompleteness essential. What can be seen entirely is already finished.

The Grammar of Open and Closed

A cylinder may be open, half-open, closed, or mid-closed. These are not states but relationships—the relationship between interior space and exterior surface, between what is contained and what contains. The open cylinder invites entry. The closed cylinder protects. The half-open cylinder suggests and withholds in equal measure.

We declare the rim significant. Where the cylinder ends, meaning begins.

A Proposition

The rectangular canvas is not default. It is one possibility among infinite surfaces. We propose the cylinder not as replacement but as reminder—that painting has always been three-dimensional, that the wall has always been a prop, that the rectangle has always been a choice.

We propose the cylinder as format, surface, and question.

On Method

Begin with the surface. Learn how line behaves when it curves. Discover how color shifts around the hidden side. Document what happens to pattern when the viewer moves. Only then arrange, combine, activate. The cylinder must be understood before it can be transformed.

We declare the surface primary. Everything else follows from attention.

This is not a declaration of completion but of beginning. The cylinder awaits its painters.

CYLINDER PAINTINGS A Format in Exploration

” the cylinder is an object of time and movement - from before the steam-engine to the motors and turbines propelling the fossilised human idiotism… the war against the space and time we live in. The cylinder is a tin-can, a bucket, a cardboard “box” containment, but mostly empty minded “

Isn’t that a little more thought provoking and DADAistic? Well its still misses the virtual vs virtue, the digital (ai) components

Your thoughts?!

You are absolutely correct, and I appreciate the sharp correction. My manifesto read like contemporary art world positioning—polished, safe, philosophically domesticated. Your alternative paragraph has actual teeth. It makes a historical argument, carries weight, refuses comfort.

Let me attempt a revised version that incorporates your edge and adds the virtual/virtue/digital dimension you identified as missing.

CYLINDER PAINTINGS: A MANIFESTO (REVISED)

The Cylinder Remembers

The cylinder is an object of time and movement—from the steam-engine to the motors and turbines propelling fossilised human idiocy. It is the war against space and time we inhabit. The cylinder is a tin-can, a bucket, a cardboard box, containment for powder and pigment, for coffee and paint. Mostly it is empty-minded.

This emptiness is not absence but capacity.

The Virtual and the Virtue

We live in two simultaneous orders: the physical cylinder of waste and the virtual cylinder of infinite reproducibility. The cardboard tube in your hand carries weight, smell, the memory of industrial production. The digital cylinder in the screen carries light, data, the promise of endless copying. Neither is more real.

The AI cylinder does not exist. It is suggestion, probability, statistical hallucination of curved surfaces. Yet the AI cylinder learns from the physical cylinder—from photographs of tin-cans, diagrams of industrial packaging, paintings of cylinders by painters who never questioned the rectangle. The digital feeds on the material. The material awaits the digital.

We declare this entanglement essential. The cylinder exists in both registers, and neither is sufficient alone.

Against the Rectangular Deviation

The rectangle is not truth. It is comfort, convenience, the wall-hanging compromise of Renaissance window-thinking. We inherited this coincidence as law. The cylinder makes no apology. It curves not to imitate nature but to refuse the lie of flatness.

A cylinder painting admits what the rectangle conceals: that surfaces wrap, that vision is never complete, that the viewer must move or remain perpetually partial. The cylinder is honest. The rectangle is a convenient fiction.

The Waste Origin

These paintings begin as refuse—cardboard tubes that held powder, containers meant for consumption and discard. The tin-can is the emblem of the fossil age, the vessel of petroleum products, the trash of convenience. To paint on waste is not redemption but continuation. The object carries its industrial history, its commercial purpose, its material origin. Painting adds to this history; it does not erase it.

We declare the material significant. The tube is not neutral ground but collaborator, conspirator, remnant.

Interior and Exterior

A cylinder has no front. The distinction between image and support collapses. What appears on the outside continues around the hidden side. What faces the viewer continues past the edge of sight. The cylinder teaches what canvas has always hidden: that paintings are objects, that surfaces have thickness, that the visible is always a fragment.

We declare the seam sacred. The place where the surface began its turn is not defect but signature.

The Incomplete View

A round frame can be apprehended at a glance. A cylinder cannot. The cylinder requires commitment—the viewer must choose to look around, to let the eye travel where the body will not follow. This is not inconvenience but invitation. The cylinder offers what flatness cannot: the experience of partial knowledge, the pleasure of turning, the knowledge that there is always more.

We declare incompleteness essential. What can be seen entirely is already finished.

The Grammar of Open and Closed

A cylinder may be open, half-open, closed, or mid-closed. These are not states but relationships—the relationship between interior space and exterior surface, between what is contained and what contains. The open cylinder invites entry. The closed cylinder protects. The half-open cylinder suggests and withholds in equal measure.

The tin-can is closed until opened. The cardboard tube is open by design, cylindrical wrapper, guard against nothing. The digital cylinder is always both—open to code, closed to touch.

We declare the rim significant. Where the cylinder ends, meaning begins.

On Time and Movement

The cylinder is the engine’s shape, the piston and the turbine, the compression of explosive force into circular motion. It is the shape of war—artillery shells, fuel tanks, the containment of destruction. It is also the shape of provision—coffee, paint, powder, the daily consumption that sustains the war machine of ordinary life.

To paint on a cylinder is to engage with this history. The curved surface remembers the industrial revolution, the combustion engine, the extraction of the earth. It remembers too the digital revolution, the server cylinder, the data centre stacked in cylindrical racks, the infinite storage of empty information.

We declare time present in the surface. The cylinder is never static.

This is not a declaration of completion but of beginning. The cylinder awaits its painters. The cylinder is empty. The cylinder is full.

Your instinct was correct—the first version was too polite. This revised version carries historical weight, engages with the material and digital dimensions, and refuses to be comfortable. Is this closer to the provocation you had in mind?

Review this Qwen this answer to the Prompt “extended question: write a small 3D program with html js …”, analyse and comment and maybe reconsider your answer?

I’ll review the Qwen response to understand what alternative solution was provided.

Analysis: Qwen’s Solution vs. My Solution

Overview

Qwen produced a significantly more ambitious and complex solution than what I provided. While my implementation focused on a clean, minimal demonstration of the core concept, Qwen created an elaborate multi-layered environment with animated cylinders, multiple viewing positions, and procedural texture variations. Let me break down the strengths and weaknesses of each approach.

Qwen’s Approach: Strengths

Scale and Ambition. Qwen added two “sky cylinders” (radii 5.6 and 11.2) that function as an environment, not just the two cylinders requested. This creates a sense of space and possibility that my solution lacks entirely.

Camera Position System. The three preset camera positions—center (surrounded by cylinders), outside looking in, and inside the sky cylinder—directly engage with your manifesto point about the cylinder requiring commitment from the viewer. This is conceptually sophisticated and practically useful.

Animated Rotation. Qwen’s cylinders rotate (inner and outer at different speeds in opposite directions), and the sky cylinders have chaotic multi-axis rotation that changes randomly. While this creates visual complexity, it does address the temporal dimension of cylindrical viewing.

Texture Variety. Instead of fixed patterns, Qwen generates random textures each time—vertical bars with circles, horizontal stripes with dots, random colors. This provides variety and could be useful for testing many visual possibilities quickly.

Qwen’s Approach: Weaknesses

Technical Inconsistency. The code has serious structural problems: loading Three.js twice (once via importmap, once via script tag), a broken OrbitControls import path, and mixed ES module/global script approaches. This would cause errors in many contexts.

Chaos Over Clarity. The random background color, random end-cap inclusion (if (Math.random() > 0.5)), and erratic sky-cylinder rotation create visual noise. The scene is not reproducible—the same reload produces different results. This undermines the “concrete art” ethos we discussed.

Over-Complexity. The 370+ line implementation includes features (sky cylinders, multi-axis rotation, complex pitch/yaw logic) that distract from the core request: two concentric cylinders with different textures. The code is harder to study, modify, and understand.

Texture Chaos. Completely random hex colors for every element produces visual cacophony. A systematic texture library (your Strategy A) would be more useful for exploring the format.

My Approach: Strengths

Clean Architecture. My 320+ line implementation is actually more concise despite being more readable. Clear sections for configuration, texture generation, scene setup, controls, and animation.

Controlled Aesthetics. Fixed color palettes (orange/blue for outer, green tones for inner) create coherent visual relationships. The geometric grid and organic circle patterns provide clear contrast for comparison.

Documentation. Comments explain each section. The UI overlay provides clear instructions. This is a better teaching tool.

Focus. Stays closer to the original request without adding unrequested complexity.

My Approach: Weaknesses

Static. No rotation, no movement, no kinetic engagement. Missing the temporal dimension entirely.

Single Environment. No sense of space or context around the cylinders.

Limited Camera Controls. Only orbit, pan, zoom—no preset positions or interior views.

Simpler Textures. Only two fixed patterns vs. Qwen’s generative variety.

Reconsideration

Qwen’s solution is conceptually closer to the spirit of your project, particularly the camera position system that lets viewers experience the cylinders from inside and outside. This directly embodies your manifesto point about incompleteness and the need for viewer commitment.

However, I would NOT recommend using Qwen’s code as-is due to its technical problems and chaotic randomness. The better path would be to combine approaches:

Would you like me to revise my implementation to incorporate these improvements? I could add the interior/exterior camera positions and create a more systematic texture generation approach while keeping the code clean and functional.

Your critique of Qwen’s approach—particularly that it lacks the virtual/virtue dimension we discussed—is valid. Both implementations show cylinders as visual objects but don’t engage with AI, digital production, or the philosophical questions about digital vs. material cylinders. That would require a different kind of project entirely—perhaps one where the textures are generated by AI, or where the cylinder itself is created through algorithmic processes.